Honest vs Honest

Turn player always wins because they have priority.

Err... It depends who activates the first Honest...

If the turn player activates the first Honest in response to his own attack (Like discarding Honest when Ehren attacks an opposing Celestia), then opponent uses Honest (for some stupid reason) in chain to the first Honest, then Celestia will gain attack equal to Ehren, then Ehren will gain attack equal to Celestia's new attack. If the turn player is attacking Ehren with Celestia, they can pass priority to the opponent who can discard their Honest. Then if they turn player discards their own Honest, for some reason, in chain to the first Honest, then their Celestia gains Ehren's attack, then Ehren gains Celestia's new attack. Making the non-turn player the one with the "winning" Honest.

But, as to why both players would use Honest in the same part of the battle phase is beyond me. Since there multiple phases within the Battle Phase, the Honests don't need to be chained so if the turn player uses Honest in one of the first phases then the non-turn player uses Honest in a later phase, then the non-turn player's Honest "wins"...

Yeah I should have worded it like that, since most people wouldn't understand what I'm saying. I don't get your last part, honest has to be used on the the damage step =/

There's 4 separate parts of the damage step where Honest can be used. So, it'd be unwise to use Honest before the final part. At that point, it'd be illogical for both players to use Honest.

so in the end whoever activates first will still win

Not if someone activates Honest in a step prior to the 4th. Because the effect of their Honest will be applied, then opponent can use Honest in a later step to gain the monsters "new" attack. If both players use them in same step, then yes, whoever used it first would "win"

yeah, cuz it wouldn't make sense to activate it sooner if u don't have to right?

Correct. But, I'd also get into the habit of asking which step the person is using it in, or stating that you're using it in the final step. Then it's clear so its not assumed you used it prior to that.

yeah thats a good idea

im so confused on that :/

Whats confusing about it? I'll try to explain it the best I can if you can tell what confuses you.

Like i get who ever throw's down honest first basically beat's the other person's honest. I just don't get what you mean by using the honest in the later sub step.

In the Damage Step, there are multiple sub steps. There's 4 I think Honest can be used in. And, each step can only have one chain. So, if one player uses Honest in any of steps prior to the final one, and the opponent doesn't chain, then that Honest's effect is applied. Then, if another player uses Honest in a later step, then that Honest adds the monsters new attack. In which case, the person who activated the latter Honest would win. However, smart players will wait until the final sub-step and activate Honest (the turn player more than likely as they have priority, but in some cases they wouldn't and priority would be passed to the opponent). Then the other person could chain Honest. Which wouldn't be a smart play. In that instance, the former Honest wins. Example:

Player A has Thunder King Rai-oh out and is the turn player.
Player B has Jain, Lightsworn Paladin out.
Player A attacks Jain with Thunder King Rai-oh. Player A activates Honest in sub-step one. (TKR = 3700). Player B uses Honest in the final sub-step (1800 + 3700 = 5500). So, Player A loses 1800.

Player A has Thunder King Rai-oh out and is the turn player.
Player B has Jain, Lightsworn Paladin out.
Player A attacks Jain with Thunder King Rai-oh. Player A uses their priority in the final sub step to activate the Honest. Player B uses Honest. They go on a chain. So Jain gains 1900 (3700), then Rai-Oh gains 3700 (5600). So, player B loses 1900.

Player A has Thunder King Rai-oh out and is the turn player.
Player B has Jain, Lightsworn Paladin out.
Player A attacks Jain with Thunder King Rai-oh. Player A doesn't use Honest at all and passes priority. Player B uses Honest, Player A chains with Honest. TKR gains 1800 (3700), then Jain gains 3700 (5500). So, PLayer A loses 1800.

Player A has Thunder King Rai-oh out and is the turn player.
Player B has Jain, Lightsworn Paladin out.
Player A attacks Jain with Thunder King Rai-oh. Player A passes priority in sub-step 1 and Player B uses Honest. Jain gains 1900 (3700). In the final sub step, Player A uses Honest, so TKR gains Jain's new attack, so TKR is at 5600. Player B loses 1900 LPs.

I'm pretty sure I covered each scenario...

Also, I thought I should note since its on the same topic as modified attack, Kalut can only be used in the first 3 sub-steps. So, if you're attacking Jain with Gale, you can use 3 Kaluts, and all you'd do is make Honest give Jain more attack provided the Honest is used in the final sub-step. If Honest is used in the same step as the 3 Kaluts, its a chain that resolves the same as Honest vs. Honest in a way. Hope that may clear up any future confusion.

Furthermore, to go with this summary: Neither Kalut or Honest target any monster on the field.

k thank's alot yellow those scenario's you posted helped thank's!

thnks yellow. that cleared up a bunch of confusion.

I found this on yugiohwiki on the section where it talk's about the breakdown of the battle phase and im wondering if there example say's that you cant wait till a later step to use honest after your opponent uses there honest cuz you lose your timing on it.

Yellow's Example:

Player A has Thunder King Rai-oh out and is the turn player.
Player B has Jain, Lightsworn Paladin out.
Player A attacks Jain with Thunder King Rai-oh. Player A passes priority in sub-step 1 and Player B uses Honest. Jain gains 1900 (3700). In the final sub step, Player A uses Honest, so TKR gains Jain's new attack, so TKR is at 5600. Player B loses 1900 LPs.

YugiohWikia's Example: Honest Vs. Honest

Player A has "Honest" in his/her hand and "D.D. Warrior Lady" in Attack Position. His opponent, Player B, has "Honest" in his/her hand and "Blue-Eyes White Dragon" in Attack Position. Player A attacks the "Blue-Eyes White Dragon" with "D.D. Warrior Lady". During damage calculation, he activates the effect of "Honest". If Player B wants to activate the effect of their "Honest", they would need to chain it. They cannot wait until after Player A's "Honest" resolves and start another Chain, because when the current Chain finishes resolving damage will be calculated and the timing to activate the effects of cards like "Honest" will have passed.

[eL]D3von a écrit:I found this on yugiohwiki on the section where it talk's about the breakdown of the battle phase and im wondering if there example say's that you cant wait till a later step to use honest after your opponent uses there honest cuz you lose your timing on it.

Yellow's Example:

Player A has Thunder King Rai-oh out and is the turn player.
Player B has Jain, Lightsworn Paladin out.
Player A attacks Jain with Thunder King Rai-oh. Player A passes priority in sub-step 1 and Player B uses Honest. Jain gains 1900 (3700). In the final sub step, Player A uses Honest, so TKR gains Jain's new attack, so TKR is at 5600. Player B loses 1900 LPs.

YugiohWikia's Example: Honest Vs. Honest

Player A has "Honest" in his/her hand and "D.D. Warrior Lady" in Attack Position. His opponent, Player B, has "Honest" in his/her hand and "Blue-Eyes White Dragon" in Attack Position. Player A attacks the "Blue-Eyes White Dragon" with "D.D. Warrior Lady". During damage calculation, he activates the effect of "Honest". If Player B wants to activate the effect of their "Honest", they would need to chain it. They cannot wait until after Player A's "Honest" resolves and start another Chain, because when the current Chain finishes resolving damage will be calculated and the timing to activate the effects of cards like "Honest" will have passed.

Player A activates Honest in Damage Calculation, which is the 4th sub-step. Which means that they cannot wait until a later step to use Honest as its the final step Honest can be used in. In my example, the first Honest was used in sub-step 1, then the other used after that, which is perfectly legal.